Ohio State’s defensive back options and what a 5-star commit says about the program: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio State has spent years recruiting its defensive backs at a high level and developing them behind the scenes. Now it’s spending this spring hoping to reap the benefits of that.

OSU is using this spring to explore its options on the back end of its defense. The 15 practices are about trying everything to figure out what could be possible in the fall.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss those options. Plus, a conversation about the decision of a five-star recruit and what it says about the program.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:12.248)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means, that’s Stéphane Chrysnik and that’s Andrew Gillis. We talked with the defensive backs on Tuesday afternoon after Ohio State’s, I think, ninth spring practice. That sounds right because they’re going to have 10 on Thursday. And then Friday will be 11. Saturday is 12. And then they’ll have to get next week with the last one being the spring game. That sounds right in my head. And if it’s wrong, I apologize. Again, not good at math, which is why I wasn’t a math major.

Anyway, we talked with the defensive backs that includes Tim Walton that includes Matt Guerrero and we got essentially every defensive back that’s intriguing except for Malik Hartford and we have still not to talk to Kenan Nelson Jr. He’s been here for two years. So that’s an interesting one of what he might not be fully healthy this free knows that might be the reason we didn’t talk with them. So if on the place I want to start though is this idea of

The defensive backs, spring in general in college football is all about individual development. That’s every coach in the country will say that. The defensive backs, Ohio State really as a whole, but especially these defensive backs are taking that and running with it, meaning that when you ask where is a guy lining up on defense, it could literally mean anywhere because, I don’t know, let’s just see what happens and find out whether it works or not.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:34.689)

Yeah. Versatility, flexibility, whatever word you want to use. It was popular on Wednesday, Tuesday at the Woody, just because, you know, there’s a variety of reasons for why Ohio State’s kind of cross-training as much as they are this spring. Um, you know, we’ve heard Ryan Day bring up the roster limit. You know, I think, you know, specifically as a pertains like Austin Cerebell, I think we saw what happened with Donovan Jackson last year.

I just think this team has put an emphasis this spring on flexibility and versatility and we’re seeing it kind of, you know, in use right now. And we’ll see what that looks like when you get to the fall. Do guys start to solidify themselves a bit more? Probably. I think we’ll know, you know, a bit more where guys fit, but also I think this gives Matt Patricia some flexibility of different packages and different ways to use guys. I know we did a pod, um, you know, in the early parts of the spring of, you know, if you think that

Devin Sanchez is your third best corner. You know, why not move Jermaine to the slot or to the nickel whenever you need that and have, you know, Devin Sanchez come into the game as opposed to, you know, Bryce West or Lorenzo styles, wherever it may be. Like this is all just allowing Ohio state in the bubble of kind of defensive backs to put the five best players on the field, wherever it seems fit. Or if you want to break it down by safeties and corners to have, you know, the two, three best corners on the field and to have the two best safeties on the field.

regardless of where you think one guy, you know, maybe fits in terms of, you know, the way we saw it going into the season. So it’s an interesting group just because there is so much talent in the secondary. And I put safety at this too, because I think guys like Malik Hartford and Jalen McLean are very talented, right? It’s a matter of just, you know, putting it together consistently and showing that, you know, you’re capable of being, you know, what, you know, someone like Lathan Ransom was last year, just dependable.

you know, week in and week out, right? There’s, there’s areas there to grow, but I still think both those guys are very talented. Devin Sanchez, Aaron Scott, very talented. Davis and Iguanosa, Drain Matthews, experienced and talented. Lorenzo Stiles has been around college football. Bryce West has potential. Like there’s so much talent in the secondary where if you cross train and have versatility, I think you’re kind of just having a conversation of putting your best players on the field as opposed to, know, okay, it’s

Stefan Krajisnik (04:01.138)

It’s this guy’s the nickel and whenever we’re having a nickel, he has to be on the field. Like if you don’t think he’s one of the five best, he doesn’t need to be. I think you had a luxury last year where I think Jordan Hancock was one of the five best back there. Probably one of the three best back there. this year is a little bit different, right? Like it might not be the guy that we pencil in as nickel just being one of the five best. So it’s an interesting position to be in. I think that Tim Walton, McBerry, Matt Patricia, Ryan Day, all the powers that be, I think are approaching this.

the proper way and I think it’s why we’re seeing that cross training be such a focus this spring. We’ll see what looks like in the fall, but right now I think that’s a very clear emphasis for this defense. And I think it lets Matt Patricia have some fun with the way he wants to plan things and whatnot.

Stephen Means (04:54.478)

So that’s what I want to ask because Andrew Mcgarrery even hinted at that when we were talking with him about this idea of there’s a difference between what you’ll see in the fall when you’re preparing for a game and what a guy might be doing out there because that’s what we have versus the spring when there’s no games. You’re just trying stuff. You’re trying to see where guys have improved. You’re trying to see what fits in where right versus the fall where it’s you already know that doesn’t work. So why are you trying to fit a square pick into a

Well, right now you gotta figure out where are your squares, where are your circles, where are your triangles and all those different things. So let’s project.

Everybody is working everywhere right now, but.

put together, put everybody in a slot, no pun intended, where are they actually going to be if they’re asked to play meaningful rep against Texas, where every single person in the corner back room, let’s just start there, we’ll do safeties in a second. So this is Jermaine Matthews, Davidson Ibn Nosen, Lorenzo Styles, Bryce West, Aaron Scott, Devin Sanchez, those six, if they are playing a meaningful snap against Texas.

Where could you realistically see them play?

Andrew (06:11.454)

Igben Osen’s outside. Styles is only in the slot. I don’t think either one of those guys are moving. I don’t think Igben Osen’s playing the slot. I don’t think Styles is playing outside. Jermaine Matthews has positional versatility, positional flexibility. He could play the slot. I wouldn’t be surprised. He could play outside. I wouldn’t be surprised. So he could do both. Aaron Scott, I think he’s just outside. I think from, know, kind of talking to people in that program, I think he’s not.

Stephen Means (06:16.205)

Okay.

Andrew (06:41.386)

really a candidate right now to play that slot role. So I think he is just outside. I think he is a little bit Davis and Ibn Nosen-y, where they’re kind of in that same mold. Let’s see, who else we got? Devin Sanchez, think outside. Miles Lockhart and Bryce West, I think are only inside.

Jordan Woods, I mean, I don’t think you asked him, but he’s not here, but he’s not even, he’s not gonna factor in anything. But yeah, so I think that’s it. I think Ibn Nusayn is outside only, Scott is outside only, Sanchez is outside only, Stiles, Lockhart, West are inside only, Matthews has versatility.

Stephen Means (07:05.048)

He’s not here. So, so he won’t be, there’s not a world where he’s playing a mini.

Stephen Means (07:28.514)

We didn’t talk to Jermaine Matthews or Davidson Ignosin.

Andrew (07:31.444)

We did not, which was tough, but we did not.

Stephen Means (07:34.402)

Which is weird.

They’re the starting cornerbacks and we didn’t talk to them today. That’s a little weird that they’re running from that a little bit. That’s and it means again, this is not a you didn’t talk to the media doesn’t mean you’re gonna be a good football player or not. But it is a little interesting that the two guys who are essentially the leaders of that room didn’t today. Meanwhile, we talked to a bunch of freshmen and whatnot. Because Caleb down stocked and we’ll get into that in a minute here. Stefan, do you agree with that? That’s Jermaine Matthews.

is the only player who realistically could play either or in a meaningful snap against Texas.

Stefan Krajisnik (08:13.13)

Yeah, you’re using the analogy of ron pegs, square hole or whatever. I think the master key is Jermaine Matthews. He’s the one who can do it all.

Stephen Means (08:25.55)

Which is why we needed to talk to Jermaine Matthews on Tuesday because well, okay, because you’ve pointed it out there a couple of times this idea of like, okay, what if we get to a world where Jermaine Matthews in the slot gets their best five out there regardless, because we didn’t talk to Malik Hartford either. We did get Jalen McLean. But what if their best trio of cornerbacks is Jermaine going in the slot and letting Devon and Aaron figure it out?

I am coming around on that being the idea and they have spent two years preparing Jermaine Matthews to do just that.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:05.096)

I think I like it.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:09.363)

The only like asterisks, only like pretense to this is that Devin and Aaron are ready. And if they are, I’m all in on that.

Stephen Means (09:17.134)

Right.

Right. Which, I don’t know, I’m not, was anybody at Aaron’s shot today?

Andrew (09:28.67)

I was not, was at somebody else during these things.

Stephen Means (09:33.262)

Okay, so this becomes a Devin Sanchez conversation and Stefan, I was like raving about Devin after he got done before we did videos and everything about a year ago, listen back to this and be like, yo, I like this dude. So what did you think? Let’s just transition into Devin Sanchez. And what did you think of Devin? And how he handled essentially his introduction to the Ohio State Beat.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:00.34)

I cut out there for a second, but you asked me what I thought about Devin Sanchez’s introduction to. I thought it was awesome, man. I thought the way he handled himself, it was like a. I’m mature confidence, I guess is what I would call it. Like he’s a guy who thinks he’s a guy who’s aware of his talents. He’s aware of what he did in high school. He’s aware of his rating and what it means to be, you know, one of the best players in Ohio state signing class. I think he gets all of that.

Stephen Means (10:04.056)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:29.62)

But also simultaneously understands the jump to college football understands that, you know, guys like Davison and Jermaine and even Aaron Scott are ahead of him when he arrives. Like he understands that he’s got to work and get his way there. And it’s, the perfect combination of what you can want. Like I loved. He did it. He misspoke at one point. He was talking about, the guy’s name is slipping my mind. He played in Texas and is the receiver at Oregon.

Stephen Means (10:57.496)

Cory or no, I don’t think he misspoke. I don’t think he misspoke.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:58.784)

Yes. Yeah. I, but he was talking about going against him in high school being like, yeah, like we had good battles. Like you win some, lose some. Like I won some, he lost some. Like, I think I get what you’re trying to say, I was like, you might’ve accidentally just been like, yeah, I’m the guy. Um, but like, I think he’s just got that kind of swagger to him where he knows he’s really good. He’s not afraid of the.

Stephen Means (11:09.806)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:25.248)

Hey, look what Jeremiah Smith just did. Like you’re the freshman that’s got to do it. Now he’s not afraid of those expectations, but at the same time, he’s also not coming up to the microphone being like, I’m going to be a starting corner. I’m the best corner in this room. I’m the best corner in the country. Like he’s saying that I’m at the bottom of the totem pole. Like I’m the new guy. I I’ve lost some, like he talked about a winter workout where Davidson kicked his butt and like Davidson was talking smack and, and Devin kind of learned like, man, losing sucks. Cause

He’s never really lost. He’s been the best player in his class for a while. Now he’s like, you got to, to learn to lose. Like it probably wasn’t easy for Jeremiah Smith when they lost to Oregon and he had a costly penalty. Like it probably wasn’t easy for Jeremiah Smith when they lost to Michigan. Like this is all stuff that you kind of learn when you’re the number one guy who’s had all the talent. And now you’re kind of at the bottom of the totem pole again. Now Jeremiah Smith didn’t spend a whole lot of time at the bottom, but

The depth chart at corner is different this year than it was at receiver last year. And I like, I like the way Devin spoke, man. I he’s, he’s going to be a captain of this team in a few years, the way that he talks. Like he is like, there is a, there’s a cockiness level, but there’s also like, I understand how Ohio state works and I understand how college football works. Like he’s very well spoken. It’s not like, I don’t know, man. There’s just some people out there who

Stephen Means (12:34.446)

Who has the strongest?

Stefan Krajisnik (12:50.676)

You know, talk a lot of smack and you’re like, dude, like you’re, you’re at the end of the bench. Like, what are you doing talking? And then there’s guys who like, yeah, I can talk smack because I know I’m really good, but like, still got to work my way up there. And I think that’s where Devin is. Like I, I gained a lot of respect from listening to him talk. I think he’s legit. And I think he is handling himself the right, right, right way. think it’s everything that, you know, when coaches preach culture and all this type of stuff that, you know, sometimes it it’s nauseating listening to it all the time at certain programs, but like,

This is what Ryan Day and Tim Walton and Matt Guerrero and Jim Knowles when he was here. And I’m sure Matt Patricia, now that he is here, like talk about and Devin fits all of that and the way that he carries himself, at least in the public eye. I’m sure he talks a lot of smack and practice and you know, that’s different when you’re on the field between the lines with your guys. Like it’s, it’s a totally different world. You’re competing, but if you can step away and kind of be an ambassador for your room and for that team and be that well-spoken as a freshman.

I think it says a lot about you.

Andrew (13:51.19)

Can I ask a question? Maybe this is more for Stephen, because Stephen’s been around for a little bit longer on this beat, but like, maybe this is a dumb question. Maybe this is just a simple answer. I don’t know. Stephen, do you think that the high school careers that Devin and Jeremiah have had has prepared them for this moment in a way that was not possible five, 10 years ago?

Like, do you think if Jeremiah Smith, like look, if Jeremiah Smith was an Ohio State receiver in 2015, I mean, you’re going to change what you’re doing, right? Like if Jeremiah Smith shows up and, you know, he’s walking into that room, obviously he’s the most talented receiver, obviously, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I’m curious, like as we talk about Devin handling himself, because I think we had this same thought with Jeremiah too, and I’m curious, like, how much you think

these kids’ high school careers have really benefited them because I think we’ve talked about this all the time. I mean, if you’re 15, 16 years old, you should be tweeting, going to Chipotle with my boys, hashtag sick. That’s what you should be saying, right? You’re 15 years old, man. You don’t have a driver’s license yet. But these kids have had cameras in their face. They’ve had all of this training almost already and they get to Ohio State and this...

I mean, how new is this for Devin Sanchez is, guess, my part of my secondary question. Like, do we think that the buildup to this with playing at North Shore, playing at such a high level and with Jeremiah playing at the level that he did and playing in the state that he did, do we think that has prepared them and do we think that they are in a more advantageous position than if they had come up in 2010 and in 2013?

Stephen Means (15:44.887)

I think...

Andrew (15:45.174)

I thought that as we as I was listening to talk I was like this is a guy that’s talked to the media before like sometimes you talk to freshmen and you’re like this is the first time they’ve ever seen this many cameras in their life

Stephen Means (15:54.638)

Yes and no. I think...

They’re opposite ends of the spectrum, Devin and Jeremiah, but the same concept of what you’re asking here in terms of their readiness for this. Both of them committed to Ohio State a year before they could sign. Six months into that commitment, Devin said, everybody who’s not named Tim Walton and Ryan Day, please stop calling me. Jeremiah continued to...

enjoy the process and neither one is wrong or right. Devin knew what he wanted. JJ knew what he wanted. He wanted Ryan Day and he wanted Brian Hartline. But Brian Hartline is a super sought after dude. So you have to make sure that, you know, if Brian Hartline’s not there, well, I’m not going. And I have to make sure I have relationships with other people. I don’t think anybody’s worried as much about Tim Walton leaving as Brian Hartline simply because Tim’s not climbing the ladder.

as a younger coach the same way Brian Hartline. So that’s where they’re different in that way. The other way is Devin has spoken to the Ohio State media before. So this is not new to him. I mean, his commitment announcement was through Berm and them over at the podcast, right? They did the whole sit down thing with. So he’s been here and he’s camped a couple of times. He’s spoken with people in this sphere. His parents are active on social media and have been

Active with the Ohio State fan base for along they’re not to that point again, Andrew They are not new to Ohio State neither is JJ JJ just didn’t talk to anybody So unless you lived in the vicinity of JJ aka all those Florida sites Who were painting this picture like he was going to flip to a Florida school then it’s like that was us in last fall camp for a lot of us

Stephen Means (17:53.218)

Physically making our introduction to Jeremiah Smith, even if he followed everybody on the planet up here He just didn’t talk to people so from that point they’re different But to the bigger point of what you’re talking about Andrew is does it feel like freshmen are more ready for this moment? Yes Because that’s been happening for a while now I mean you can go back to Braxton Miller starting here as a true freshman at quarterback, right? Trevor Lawrence won a national championship as a true freshman to a more national champion Who was George’s quarterback before Justin Fields Jake from?

Andrew (18:23.126)

Take care.

Stephen Means (18:23.128)

Got to the national championship game as a true freshman, right? But then, I mean, you look at this 2024 recruiting class, Jeremiah Smith, Cam Coleman, Ryan Williams, Michael Hudson, Ryan Ringo. Those are some of the best wide receivers in the country. And they were 18. So from a football standpoint, yes, to answer your question, these guys are more ready. But then also, yes, they’re doing a million different things in high school.

and talking to a million different medias that getting interviewed is not new for them. But they are still new to the Ohio State beat, which is larger than most beats in sports in general. So there is an element of how you handle 40 people asking you, hey, are you gonna be awesome at 18 even though that’s an unrealistic expectation to be awesome? And I do feel like,

Caleb wasn’t here, he was at Alabama. So I don’t know how he handled the first time he talked to me. And also Nick Saban did things a little bit differently. I don’t know how often two freshmen were talking to the media in spring. Right. Let alone in eight practices into a spring. That’s just not how they do that. That’s an Ohio State thing. Because again, the appetite’s a little different up here. So I get it. But I felt like last year and Stefan, you had not moved to Columbus yet. You were still making your way here yet that year.

Stefan Krajisnik (19:22.4)

don’t know if Caleb ever did. I would be stunned if he ever did an interview at Alabama.

Stephen Means (19:42.232)

But Andrew, felt like listening to JJ for the first time during fall camp last year, I was just trying to see how we handled it all. And I walked away. Yeah, I’m not like scared of it. I’m aware of who I am. I’m just not going to sit here and have 30 million conversations of how awesome I’m to be. I’m just going to be awesome. But I am aware of who I am. And I felt that same energy from Devin, granted in the voice of a cornerback. So it is a little bit more cocky.

a little bit, but I felt like I walked away from Devin and it was like, yeah, I know who I am. I know what you guys think I’m going to be and it’s great, but now I gotta go out here and do it, but I am fully aware and I’m not running from it. That’s the big thing I got from him is I know who I am, not focused on it, but I’m not running from that either. I’m not running from these crazy expectations because I promise you the ones I have for myself are way crazier than what you think they are.

Stefan Krajisnik (20:41.876)

Yeah, I think that’s something that we always kind of have to remember with these athletes. It’s like, like there’s a lot of pressure on them. They put a lot of pressure on themselves. Like, you know, the outside world isn’t the only thing that sets expectations and ratings. Aren’t the only things that set expectations, right? There’s, there’s three star guys on that roster who probably think that they can be the best at their position in the country. Like that’s just how these guys are built. Yeah. think Devin’s got all the qualities. The JJ thing is interesting. Like it is interesting listening back.

last year and thinking about it. Like when you guys first spoke to him, it was that I know how good I can be, but like, I’m not going to say anything until I show you. And then we got to the playoff and it was like, you need all 11 guys. If you’re to stop me, he starts name dropping Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan. It’s like, all right, like now you’ve shown us now you can say that. And, and, and it would not surprise me if

Stephen Means (21:24.577)

Yes.

Stephen Means (21:31.33)

Yes.

Andrew (21:33.46)

We started talking, he started talking about the call against Oregon too, where he was just like, receivers can’t be physical anymore.

Stefan Krajisnik (21:36.811)

Yeah. Yeah. Like, and maybe it doesn’t happen in this true freshman year for Devin Sanchez, but like at some point he’s going to have that same press conference where he’s like, nobody can score on me. I want to be, you know, Daryl Revis, Deion Sanders, whoever you want. Like that’s who I want to be. Like we’re going to get there, but I think he’s approaching it the right way of just, all right. Like I’m good, but I haven’t.

I haven’t even done my first fall camp yet. Like I’m not going to say anything. So I respect that. Also the way he talked about like tuning out, like the internet and like social media and stuff like that. That is so fascinating to me because that is like a learning curve for a lot of these guys. When they get to programs like this, it’s like, I mean, dude, like log into. Will Howard’s Twitter account that they, lost in Michigan and like, tell me, you know, walk a mile in those shoes. Like, tell me how you feel. I wonder if we’re baby just like.

Andrew (22:28.406)

Oh, it was bad, yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:35.04)

That was such a big thing like five years ago where it’s like, my God, social media is just creating this toxic waste. I’m like, maybe these guys that have like had social media now since they were like in elementary school, maybe they just like know how to tune it out.

Stephen Means (22:49.482)

Because Ryan Day said, answered this question too a little bit when he was talking about, I don’t know how we got down this field, but I’m glad we did. The idea of everything about them has been positive until they get here, right? And if they flip somewhere, sure, you’re making a fan base mad. And there’s the Luna chick fringe who are going above and beyond to yell out a teenager. Don’t yell out teenagers on the internet guys, but it’s all positive, right? Devin Sanchez committed here. Whoa, Devin Sanchez.

Devin Sanchez such now his commitment. Whoa, Devin Sanchez. Devin Sanchez signs. Whoa, Devin Sanchez. Devin Sanchez has had a pretty good spring so far. Devin Sanchez. Devin Sanchez is on the field against Texas. Whoa, we’re playing the young guys. Ryan Wingo blows by Devin Sanchez. Whoa, Devin Sanchez. Right, that’s, it’s gotta happen. Right.

Andrew (23:31.989)

What?

That’s exactly what I was about to say, yeah.

Andrew (23:40.598)

Yeah, it’s where where’s Aaron Scott? Why didn’t we do? Yeah, it’s it gets negative real fast.

Stephen Means (23:45.646)

But they know that though. so when athletes talk about how they’ve just deleted social media, no, you didn’t. see you tweeting and retweeting stuff all the time and you see it and you read it. do you, the point is, do you internalize it? And the, goes back to Andrew’s point, Devin, Jeremiah, Ryan Wingo, Ryan Williams, like this younger generation of athletes, they grew up with this. They’ve grown up with

Please flip to my school. Please visit my school. he’s only going to that school because they’re giving him more money. I hate you now because you’re not going to my school anymore. you’re going to the end. breaking down. What does this top five mean? he showed up. They’re so used to that that they don’t internalize it the same way where quite frankly, athletes are who are in their mid 20s. And we kind of grew up as social media was growing up, probably didn’t handle it as well.

So Will Howard probably doesn’t internalize it the same way that Julian Sand will, because they’re four years younger than him. So to that point, Devin Sanchez and Jeremiah Smith are...

probably just more capable of handling when they get cheered and when they get booed a little bit differently because they’re used to this life.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:05.664)

I mean, we’ve been watching Cooper flag videos for like seven years now. Like he’s had like hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers for years. Like these guys I’ve grown up in this, which I, Steven, I loved the example you used of usually it’s all good until like you flip and then an entire fan base hates you. I think Blaine, this probably gets us into the next segment. So maybe we can take a break. think Blaine, Blaine Bradford dealt with both of it where he committed to Ohio state and everyone was happy. And then Ohio state fans were like,

Stephen Means (25:08.654)

Right.

Stephen Means (25:23.384)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (25:26.838)

I was gonna bring that up, so thank you, Stephane.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:35.732)

Wait, this guy’s from Baton Rouge. He’s going to flip. And it’s like, OK, we could just be happy for like at least like 12 minutes. Like his dad is literally getting questions on Twitter being like, so when is he going to flip? It’s like, dude, like go get lunch, man. Like come on.

Stephen Means (25:50.574)

It’s 130 in the afternoon. He just committed. It’s like, right, well, he’s not really going to come here.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:55.849)

It’s like dude you’re on your lunch break tweeting at a recruits dad like take a breath

Andrew (25:59.636)

It’s also like like, man, it’s not even April yet, or at least it was in April at the time. Like he committed in March. You’re not going to do this for nine months. Like there’s a there’s like there’s a there’s a comment. Well, I mean, like each individual person, you know, you’ll die, you’ll die of stress.

Stefan Krajisnik (26:10.74)

No no no no no, they’re gonna do this for nine months. There’s Iowa fans tweeting at Jeremiah Every time Jeremiah Smith tweets there’s an Iowa fan who’s like, you’re a Hawkeye. Dude, he’s not going to Iowa, remember?

Stephen Means (26:12.408)

Yeah, okay, hold on. Let’s...

Stephen Means (26:17.793)

Okay.

Andrew (26:23.673)

Okay, but that’s kind of funny though. The aisle place that tweeted Jeremiah Smith is kind of funny.

Stephen Means (26:25.474)

Okay, okay. Let’s take a break. Is there anything else about the current 2025 roster of DBs that we need to get into right now? Other than everybody’s playing everywhere and Devin Sanchez is a super mature kid. Shout out to his parents. They raised a solid kid.

Stefan Krajisnik (26:44.65)

Did we mention yesterday, Caleb downs kind of just the snap count, like nagging injury situation. Caleb, Caleb, like Caleb didn’t even want to call it an injury. He literally just said like, yeah, I played the most snaps of anyone on the roster last year. And they’re kind of just like, I think, I think the way he described it is like, they’re basically going into practice, kind of mapping out like which reps he’s taking part in. He said that he’s done like some team stuff, not a whole lot. I,

Stephen Means (26:51.232)

No, we didn’t. What did he have to say?

Stephen Means (27:01.422)

That’s true.

Stephen Means (27:12.685)

Hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (27:14.144)

Jeremiah Smith is probably in this realm as well. Ryan Day just hasn’t kind of set it out right. But like these two guys are two best players in college football and they just played 16 games. The last one of which came less than two and a half months ago. Like don’t freak out about the fact that Caleb Downs has a quote unquote nagging injury. If they played Texas tomorrow, he would play 70 snaps.

Stephen Means (27:32.696)

Bye.

Stephen Means (27:36.856)

I’m gonna devalue what he’s dealing with just for the sake of it. I love Cameron, man. He’s hilarious. He stubbed his toe and then went, no, let’s pull him back.

Stefan Krajisnik (27:45.898)

Hey, I fractured my toe stubbing it literally two weeks ago. That’s no joke.

Stephen Means (27:52.398)

I’ve only had that conversation about going through winter workouts. I take that back. You fractured your toe by stubbing it?

Stefan Krajisnik (27:56.757)

Ha

Just a slight fracture. ran four miles on Sunday, so that was fine. I woke up Monday and I was like, oh, I forgot I fractured my toe because it kind of hurts, but it can happen. Stubbing your toe. It’s no joke, man. I guarantee you there’s at least one other listener listening to this who’s done that before. And I guarantee you Stephen Means has stubbed his toe and said some words that he will not say on this podcast.

Stephen Means (28:03.064)

Good, man.

Stephen Means (28:17.389)

Do you?

Stephen Means (28:21.73)

I mean, yeah, I’ve stubbed my toe before, but I wouldn’t necessarily say I stubbed my toe and fractured it, but okay. I mean, it’s just not helping our case here. It’s not helping our case. Fine. Anyway, let’s take a break and then we’ll get back on the, they love you and they hate you then they love you again because Matt Guerrero is doing some work here. And Andrew, thought you asked some pretty insightful questions about the by-product of how this was able to even happen without obviously been able to ask him directly about the recruit. We’ll get more into that when we come back.

And we’re back here on Buckeye Talks, Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick, and Andrew Gillis. talked with the defensive backs on Tuesday afternoon after Ohio State’s ninth practice. And we didn’t talk to any of the top of the deaf chart, which is like really weird that we didn’t talk to any of the top of the deaf chart, which is why it felt like Devin Sanchez was the star of the day. Because it felt that way with JJ last fall too, but at least Rebecca and Carnell were, and Brandon and us were visible. The Brandon Carnell in a Mecca,

This year of the corner back room. We just didn’t talk to them today, which was a little weird though But we did talk with Matt Guerrero and Tim Walton Matt Guerrero Andrew is living his best life Right now. He’s got Caleb Downs for a second year Lathan Ransom was awesome last year He’s got the heme Delane who I thought was interesting when he named up for him Delane as someone

who was in the mix in the way he talked about Fahim Delane and being physically ready to play college football. Ding, ding, ding. When you’re looking for safety depth and you’re looking about the future, Fahim Delane, that sounds like a kid who’s going to be on special teams this year. And then this time next year, we’re going, okay, Fahim, which spot to start that? He also got Blaine Bradford, the number 23 player, number one safety in the 2026 recruiting class, 24 hours before we talked with...

Matt Guerrero fresh off an unofficial visit, you were asking an interesting concept for Ohio State and essentially how much does winning a national championship actually help Ohio State in this world where they’re already recruiting at the highest level possible? Just give me the motivation behind those questions. But also what did Matt Guerrero have to, because you were essentially asking, hey, you’re having a lot of success right now. Why do you think that’s?

Andrew (30:43.478)

Well, yeah, just so so people are clear, I can’t say, hey, Matt, Blaine Bradford’s pretty good, right? In case people were. Yeah, just in case people were pretty good or people were unclear of that, they are not allowed to discuss these players until they are signed, until they actually put pen to paper. That’s why, if you remember of 2020, well, the twenty twenty three, technically, I guess it was when Ryan Day had his press conference and he did the Jeremiah Smith thing and he goes, really?

Stephen Means (30:48.876)

Not on the record.

Andrew (31:12.692)

And then he couldn’t talk about Jeremiah Smith for a little bit. So I couldn’t ask that. So I think the one of the things that I wanted to ask, and this was followed up, I believe Tony Gerdman asked the, that’s the first question. Like, what does it take to keep a committed player that lives out of state committed? And Matt Guerrero said relationships and basically keeping on it and, and talking about

you know, hey, you need to stay on this guy and you really need to to kind of keep that keep that going. Because obviously, when your brother goes to LSU and when you live in Louisiana, the poll is just insane to go to LSU and not only LSU. I mean, you don’t think Texas or A &M or Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, like all those schools that live down there or that are down there like those schools are obviously Paul and Adam. So

You know, I thought that was interesting. And then I asked him, where’s the national championship bump show up? That was that was my question, because Ohio State recruits so well that it’s really. I’ve just been curious about that, and Steven and I were talking about this a little bit like a week or so ago, like off the podcast, like, OK, what about Ohio State recruiting really can like get better?

Right. Because like, if you look at where they’ve ranked in the last couple of years, it’s it’s pretty unique. Ohio State in the 2025 class was fourth in the 2024 class. I believe they were fifth. Like they’re they’re top five recruiting every year. So I asked him point blank. said, where does that bump show up? And he basically said talking to kids, knowing that you’re the best carries a lot of weight. He said the word he said the word best.

carries a lot and that means a lot. He said when you got the trophy and it means you’re the best, you can show that around and you can flaunt that a little bit and you can talk to these kids and say number one defense in the country, national champions and number one and best means a lot to these kids. I think look, obviously Ohio State is always going to recruit well, Alabama, Texas, these schools are always going to pull.

Andrew (33:34.55)

even the schools that are a little bit on a downturn, like a school like in Oklahoma, know, a school like has, who has not done well is still going to recruit well because of that brand. But Ohio state now gets that bump. And I’m, was curious if the Blaine Bradford commitment was part of that. And I was curious and I still am. And I think that’s going to be something that we have to kind of figure out over these next couple of weeks and next couple of months as the rest of this recruiting class comes together. mean, Sam Grier told me point blank.

Look, I was probably going to commit even if Justin Fry was the offensive line coach. You know, he said he was like, look, I always want to go. was like, I just he’s like, I just had to make sure that who they hired basically knew what he was talking about and that I was in good hands. But why does they pull in a five star safety at Baton Rouge, Louisiana is very, very interesting to me. And I’m wondering if we’re going to give them that bump. Does Blaine Bradford fit into that bump?

Stephen Means (34:09.358)

He’s an Ohio kid. Yeah.

Stephen Means (34:17.805)

Yeah.

Andrew (34:31.434)

Does Blaine Bradford fit into that bubble? I don’t know. Would Blaine Bradford have committed to Ohio State if Texas had beaten Ohio State in the cotton pole? I don’t know. That’s why I asked. That’s why I’m curious. I’m curious what that championship does for, for Maigrari, and this is a question I’ll probably ask a couple other position coaches as well. I’m curious how this manifests itself.

Stephen Means (34:53.24)

Sam Greer’s answer to you is why we can, is often why we only give us so much credit for keeping a kid home. We’re not devaluing it, but it’s why you have to say it’s a bigger story if he doesn’t stay home. Because Sam Greer grew up wanting to play for Ohio State. It doesn’t matter who the position coach is. Sam Greer wanted to make sure he wasn’t making a stupid decision. He wanted to make sure he was, he wasn’t just going to Ohio State because his inner child.

wants to go to Ohio State. It had to still be the best thing for his career long term, which is probably why it took so long. And that’s what it sounds like from what you just said, Andrew, how he was talking. Listen, I’m going there. just I can’t go there if they’re not good. Right. If I’m going to ruin my. Right.

Andrew (35:36.662)

I can’t go there. They don’t know what they’re going to do with me. think I think that way. I think this goes back a little bit to the Justin Hill conversation where Justin Hill was kind of looking for. Hey, you know, he probably wanted to go to Ohio State, but he went, man, I want to play in the NFL. I want an NFL career.

Stephen Means (35:45.602)

Bingo.

Stephen Means (35:52.546)

I’m not sacrificing my career so that five-year-old me can be happy.

Andrew (35:56.852)

Yes, I’m not. There’s a difference between making a professional decision and a personal decision. And it’s great when both of them line up, especially for Ohio kids. And look, when it comes to Ohio kids, a lot of times it does line up because Ohio State is a great place for development and a lot of great different positions. But like that that Justin Hill argument, the kid, if you don’t remember from Winton Woods in Cincinnati, who was kind of this hybrid Ed Drusher type player.

who is now like playing his specific type of role at Alabama and he’s like 6′3″, 230. Like Ohio State didn’t have a role for him, so he went, I need to go to where they’re gonna have a role for me.

Stephen Means (36:24.622)

You know it’s

Stephen Means (36:28.302)

You know what’s crazy?

Stephen Means (36:32.29)

You know it’s crazy.

He would have.

Andrew (36:35.338)

that right now he would be perfect for Ohio State’s defense. I thought about that. I’ve thought about that a lot.

Stephen Means (36:38.676)

Anyway, Bradford Conversation.

I don’t want to go deep, deep into this because I think it’s a point to be, it’s an entire pod. So let’s try to have a 15 minute conversation about the idea that we can turn into a whole subject matter in May.

Stephen Means (37:08.104)

What if this is it? Right? Because I’m only bringing Nick Saban’s name up because Ryan Day brought it up, but also because Stefan, you and I kept doing it in Monday pods during the season. But that void is not.

Stefan Krajisnik (37:22.27)

We brought it up, but then Ryan Day also brought it up so that we could keep bringing it up.

Stephen Means (37:26.55)

Right. Nick Saban’s Trump card was that he was Nick Saban.

So why did that kid come here? doesn’t make, cause Nick Saban’s there. That’s why. it was the tiebreaker. The kid wants to go somewhere else, but Nick Saban exists. Caleb Downs is literally the example for this. Caleb Downs, it came down to Alabama and Ohio State. And quite frankly, from a culturalistic standpoint, he fit Ohio State better, which is why he made this transition so seamless here. But Nick Saban was at Alabama. So guess where he went?

And guess where he went as soon as Nick Saban wasn’t in Alabama anymore. What if that’s where Ryan Day lives now? And it just took a championship to get it over top. Now, Matt Guerreiro was talking about what also helps is you had the two best safeties in America last year. I don’t know if he had two of the six best safeties in America. He had the best safety in America and Nathan Ransom’s one of the five best safeties. So when you pair that together and those two play that well, it also helps blame Brad for his case. It also helps that Matt Guerreiro might just be a really good recruiter because

It’s been 20 plus years since Ohio State’s gotten a player out of Louisiana. And it’s been like 10, 15 years since they got into five star safety from anywhere. Like their safety recruiting has been like, okay, at best. And now they got this kid who’s a top 25 recruit out of a state that doesn’t ever lose its players anywhere. Cause Louisiana LSU was the only powerful for school in its state too, just like Ohio State was for a long time before Cincinnati became a powerful school. But what if this is it?

What if they got the monkey off of his back and now he lives in a world where why is Blaine Bradford coming to Ohio State? Because Ryan Day’s running things. Why is you know? Jackson Cantwell coming to Ohio State even though he there’s a million other reasons to go elsewhere because Ryan Day’s running things. No house states running the sport now. Georgia still exists. They’ll probably get back on the horse after a down year. Steve Sarkeesian’s got things cooking at Texas right now. Dan landing out of Oregon.

Stephen Means (39:28.948)

is a fun conversation, but he’s got to do some winning now too.

But I don’t know what if this is it, Andrew? What if this is it? Now these are the types of players Ohio State gets simply because they want a Natty. Ryan Day is not going anywhere. They’re not firing him and he’s not leaving. He is locked in for as long as he wants to be Ohio State’s head coach. And so now he might get to do what Saban always did is I got that guy because of me. There’s no like rhyme or reason. I’m just me. So I got him. Deal with it.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:03.016)

I think if you’re Ryan Day, like, and you’re Ohio state, if you’ve ever set whether it’d be to yourself or in the public, like an expectation that’s too low and Ryan day has never done that. if you’re, if you’re someone who’s sitting at home being like, Ohio state can’t get guys from Baton Rouge. Why it’s Ohio state, Ohio state football specifically.

Stephen Means (40:25.538)

But could they say that before January 20th?

Stefan Krajisnik (40:28.178)

Right. Right. You could say when you had Urban, he had all the, all the accolades. Jim Turkle had the accolades. Right. And now you’re Ryan Day, you’ve got the accolades in an era where you can also give them the money too.

Stephen Means (40:33.804)

And he didn’t do it.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:45.056)

So why not? think like, Dave said this last year when we were talking about, it was right around when David Sanders committed to Tennessee. He got asked like, your wide receiver, you can you be O line you? And Dave was basically like, yeah, we should be. So like, okay, why, why aren’t you go be it? And I’ll look at the offensive line recruiting. I always say it’s going out there and making a splash. Why can’t you be on you’ve had great corners and defensive ends and linebackers come through Ohio state.

Andrew (40:46.325)

I mean...

Stefan Krajisnik (41:13.716)

Why can’t you go get the best safety in the country? Would you say Stephen highest rate of safety in like 15 years for them? Why not? Like why can’t Ohio State, but look the best safety in the country is from Georgia. He’s playing for Ohio State right now. Like why? Why not? Why not?

Stephen Means (41:19.031)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (41:30.894)

pretty sure Von Bell was the last five star safety they got, which Urban Meyer has said is the most important recruitment of his Ohio State tenure because it opened the door for what followed in a class that also had Ezekiel Elliott, Joey Bosa and on down the list there. But Von Bell, Ohio State recruits, because Von Bell decided as a five star safety out of Georgia, he was going to come to Ohio State. That’s like the linchpin of all this.

I mean, they just got another five star safety. Again, we’re saying this as Stefan joked in the before the break. It’s a long day till signing day. We don’t know what’s going to happen. Weird things happen all the time. But right now, Ohio State has the number one safety in the country committed to a 2026 recruiting class. And I feel like it’s making another statement just like Von Bell did all those years ago of, kids from the South, we don’t have to stay in the SEC. Let’s go to Ohio State and beat the SEC. And he did just that. They beat Alabama. Blaine Bradford is like,

That’s the pro best program in college football. And that’s my arguably the best coach in college football. I’m going there because they’re there. That’s simple.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:36.384)

Why not? Why not?

Andrew (42:37.374)

I mean, look, this conversation boils down to. I mean, it’s very simple, it’s rings Ernie. It’s exactly what it is, and it’s it’s Shaq telling Charles Barkley to shut up and Ernie Johnson. So I guess we’ll have to. So Shaq, guess in this scenario is Ryan Day. Or you could just say rings Ernie and Charles Barkley’s any other coach, because before this year,

It was Kirby, it was Dabo, and funny, it was Mac Brown. He kind of got lost in that shuffle, but Mac Brown won one at Texas and he was at North Carolina. So now obviously, mean, Bill Belichick is at North Carolina now, so that’s just kind of a weird, it’s a whole other topic. But that’s the list. Kirby, Dabo, and Ryan Day.

Stephen Means (43:15.726)

yeah.

Andrew (43:34.642)

active college football coaches that have won a national championship. many coach, like Ryan Day can now walk into a recruits home and Matt Guerrero can walk into a recruits home. And I know Tyler Bowen wasn’t here, but Tyler Bowen can walk into a recruits home and like all these guys can walk into these people’s houses and high schools and camps and have a ring on and they can look at even the staff at Alabama and say,

Hey look, Alabama, that’s not savings Alabama. Right, like Brian Kelly, yeah, Brian Kelly. It’s not right, you’re right, it’s not Ryan Day because hey, Brian Kelly’s a great coach, man. He’s not Ryan Day. You can keep going down that list.

Stefan Krajisnik (44:08.512)

Think about the LSU staff. going up again.

Stephen Means (44:13.838)

He’s not right. I’m looking at he’s got three official.

Stephen Means (44:19.672)

He’s got three official visits scheduled. Texas on June 6th, Ohio State June 13th, and then LSU June 20th. Though I’m sure he’ll be on LSU’s campus plenty. Again, he’s from Baton Rouge. He can walk to LSU’s campus. One of these is not like the other.

Stephen Means (44:43.624)

LSU is just home. Texas is a quality program. Steve Sarkeesian is on Ryan Day.

Andrew (44:53.948)

And so there’s a national college football podcast that I listened to, Split Zone Duo, and one of the hosts, Steven Godfrey, lives in the South, grew up in the South, and he talked about for years this concept of SEC dominance, right? know, because for years, I know people get sick of it. For years, it was true, right? Especially like from that Ohio State Florida National Championship game through Saban, where LSU was there, Florida was there, Alabama was there, Auburn was there.

Stephen Means (44:53.986)

Maybe that’s politics now.

Andrew (45:21.526)

Like they just, they just kind of rotated and whenever they played a big 10 team, they kind of mopped the floor with them. And.

When Ohio State won in 2014, he talked about this concept of people down South kind of looking at it going, oh, well, that doesn’t really matter because it’s Ohio State. Like Ohio State operates like an SEC team. Ohio State operates like we do, this whatever. And he was using it in the frame of this Michigan conversation when Michigan won the national championship where he went, this is the first time where people have gone, what in the world just happened? Said with Ohio State, it’s always been different.

Okay, well, Ohio State, it’s always been different. And Ohio State had won one national championship in the last 20 years. And now they have a Trump card that they did not have before. Now they have something that they can walk into the staff at Florida, at LSU, at Texas, at Texas A all these schools that they used to be able to say, hey, we’re competing for national championship just like Ohio State is.

We’re competing, we’re right there with Ohio State. Now you can look at, now Ohio State can go, no, we’re not, we’re not the same. Are you kidding me? Our coach has a national championship. Their coach doesn’t. We have a national championship. I coached Caleb Downs. I coached Denzel Burke. I coached Jack Sawyer. We won national championship with those guys. That coach didn’t win a national championship. Hey man, you want to play with them? Fine. You’re have a long winter. You’re not gonna be playing football during the winter.

There’s just a Trump card now that has not existed under Ryan Day’s tenure at Ohio State that now exists. And this is something that I think is going to be very interesting to monitor as recruits and as recruiting kind of ramps up over this next, I don’t know, four or five months here, because as you guys all know, recruiting gets crazy. you know, look, maybe this is a Nahim Alfred situation and maybe we get the signing day and maybe he does flip. I don’t know. Like, we’ll see.

Andrew (47:24.116)

But it’s also not insane to suggest that this is the beginning of something that, hey, maybe Ohio State now just got ramped up.

Stephen Means (47:33.902)

It’s just days in year seven as a head coach, Urban was pretty established. So he was coming here to raise the profile of his hometown school as a guy who was already one of the best coaches ever. And Jim Trestle had made his reputation and what he was doing at Youngstown State. He was still older, but still that national championship. There was a bump that came with that. So what’s Ryan Day’s championship bump? What is he able to do now that he couldn’t do?

four months ago because he hadn’t won a national championship yet. Well, maybe the early evidence is he gets Blaine Bradford out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana as the number one safety in the country.

Stefan Krajisnik (48:13.312)

Like it’s a small sample size right but like These kids are all getting paid. It’s easier to travel than ever like maybe they’re just like maybe it’s not just what do we use to talk about when we talk about recruiting I mean the Bradford thing I Mean LSU in Ohio State have polls in their state. Maybe the two strongest in the country Where did the best safety from Ohio go last year? Not Ohio State

Stephen Means (48:39.489)

Mmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (48:45.098)

So why, like, why, you know, why can’t Ohio state get the best safety out of Louisiana?

Andrew (48:50.102)

And I think I think the larger point like Stefan is making is, you know, maybe Blaine Bradford is Louisiana’s Trey McNutt. And Trey and he just said, you know what, I want to blaze my own path. My brother went to LSU. I grew up here. I want to go to Ohio State. Maybe that’s possible. That is 100 percent possible. And maybe the next of the 10 next Blaine Bradford’s, eight of them go to LSU.

maybe this opens the door.

Stephen Means (49:19.31)

Doesn’t Fahim Delayne have a brother who plays at LSU too?

Andrew (49:23.19)

Was brother played at Virginia Tech I know he entered the portal did he I Think okay, I think he might have transferred LSU He was at VT and then he entered the portal so he might be at LSU

Stephen Means (49:28.642)

I think he’s at LSU now.

Stephen Means (49:36.556)

I think if he’s at LSU, I think that’s hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, that’s funny. One brother at LSU, one brother at Ohio State. Just rinse and repeat. This time with the five star safety at the way to do it.

Andrew (49:39.184)

He is at LFU actually. He is at LFU.

Andrew (49:51.434)

Yeah, the Bradford family and the Delaine family, gotta get like some frequent flyer miles and just like have just like that account. You know what, honestly, they should just each get an apartment, one in Columbus, one in Baton Rouge, and they just flip every weekend. They just like change houses in their home games.

Stephen Means (49:56.174)

We’re just gonna take shifts.

Stephen Means (50:03.726)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:06.002)

He’s, you know, Delaine family. mean, from Maryland, no one’s talking about them not going to Maryland.

Stephen Means (50:06.178)

have a time share.

Stephen Means (50:12.078)

No, no, that’s not. No. That’s not even.

Andrew (50:15.798)

Are they gonna join Buzz Williams at Maryland now?

Stefan Krajisnik (50:17.908)

Maryland’s Maryland’s trying to figure out if their football school or basketball school. They can’t really make up their mind.

Stephen Means (50:21.106)

Right. have other, they have, they have larger problems. Yeah. They have larger problems and whether a four star safety is staying home or not. But okay. I just, I wanted to put that in people’s heads, that idea. There’s a void that needs to be filled. The guy who was just getting guys simply because of that’s who he is. Along with the fact that the last few times Ohio State won a national championship, there was a tangible.

Andrew (50:21.662)

Yeah, it’s fine. And they’re, by the way, they’re choosing wrong. I’m letting you know they’re choosing wrong.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:29.493)

Ha

Stephen Means (50:46.296)

thing that came from that that coach got the benefit from for the rest of his career. What does that look like for Ryan Day? And if Blaine Bradford is the first crucial step in making that happen, okay, that means what are the possibilities for Ohio State 2026 recruiting class, but then beyond as well. That’s cornerback talk. That’s defensive back talks. No, we’re not in the building tomorrow. So one thing we’re going to do

is preview Saturday a little bit when we’re in there for the full scrimmage in the Ohio State student appreciation day practice. Just some things we want to have answered, some things we want to see on Saturday when we get to watch a full Ohio State practice. So get the text 614-353-3315. We’ll also talk with the offensive lineman later on this week. It’s a two week free trial, 399 after that for Stefan Kreisnick and Andrew Gillis. I’m Stephen Means and that was Book Ride Talk.